M&T:
What makes you special?
José Cura: There are people who want to stick me
into a box where they’d like tenors to be, but I don’t really behave like a
tenor.
M&T: Do you mean on or off stage?
José Cura: On stage I surely don’t behave like
your typical, conventional tenor, and when I put on a concert, I am not a
showman or someone who is laughably dressed like a penguin. People are
sometimes confused by that, and they don’t have a clue as to which compartment
they ought to put me in.
M&T: That doesn’t exactly sound like something to
flatter your colleagues.
José Cura: I don’t mean to ridicule my colleagues;
rather, I simply do not consider myself to be an average tenor. I am a
musician who is able to sing in the range of a tenor. Conducting is my life,
my true calling, and that’s why I do it as often as I can.
M&T: Well, there aren’t very many tenors in the
world of opera, especially not of the type that you are, with a talent for the
dramatic repertoire. On the other hand, there are lots of conductors.
José Cura: But not many good ones!
M&T: Might one conclude that you consider yourself
to be one of the few that are good?
José Cura: Sorry to say it: yes. I am much better
as a conductor that as a tenor. That’s really the case, also when viewed
from a distance. The thing is: The way I sing, the way I move and the way I
look, I can impress people much more easily as a tenor. To make an impression
as a conductor is much more difficult. Naturally, you can wave your arms
around wildly and make faces, but that doesn’t sustain you for long. On the
other hand, the vast majority in an audience is unable to truly assess (the
performance of) a conductor and the role he plays in the success of a
performance. But when a guy sings, they’re lying in their chairs, knocked
flat.
M&T: And that you want to deprive your fans of in
the future?
José Cura: I indeed will keep on singing opera; I
do sing frequently, work up and rehearse new roles, develop new productions,
take on new challenges. And I do like all of that--I’m not an unhappy tenor.
But on the other hand, I really want to conduct as often as possible. I have
just recorded Dvorak’s symphony From the New World, and my Rachmaninov
CD has gotten very good reviews. It is said to be one of the best recordings
of this symphony. Therefore, I surely cannot be such a poor conductor.
M&T: Will you record other symphonies?
José Cura: Yes, Tchaikovsky’s 5th, the
‘Misa Criolla” by Ramirez and probably also works by Janacek.
M&T: On your homepage, you indicate plans for your
Centenary Tribute Collection, which celebrates composers’ 100th
anniversaries, all the way to Mahler in 2011. To you also a high point for a
conductor?
José Cura: By all means. That’s why I’m glad that
it’s still six years away. So I still have a little time.
M&T: What is it about conducting that fascinates
you? Is it a question of power and control?
José Cura: No, that’s not it at all. I can
exercise much more power as the First Tenor at an Opera House than as the
conductor—in the negative sense of the word (power), mind you. No, I truly
consider myself to be a conductor, a musician who conducts. I became a singer
for economic reasons only. And after so many years of singing, I feel called
to put the same strength and energy that I used to put into working out and
polishing my opera roles, into symphonic music.
M&T: Are you tired of the opera repertoire?
José Cura: The symphonies of Rachmaninov or Dvorak
are indeed works that are central, and the attraction, the allure is not in
the dramatic impetus, but rather in the subtext, in the extraction and
chiseling out of the subtleties and nuances in cooperation with the
orchestra’s musicians. The fascination lies in passing these messages on to
the listener.
M&T: How do you approach a symphonic work?
José Cura: Just like every other conductor does.
First you analyze it: form, harmonies, instrumentation, also the technical
side, you might say, the ‘cold’ side. You’ve got to learn what’s going on to
start with. And then there is the far more important aspect: you have to find
the subtext. Every work of art has a subtext; it doesn’t matter whether it is
a picture, a play or, well, music. One finds allusions to the subtexts in the
testimony of the composers, in their letters, in their rough drafts and
outlines, but also in the tensions and musical references in the score. The
message is hidden underneath the form. It isn’t always the same message for
every person. Sometimes there are even several different ones. It is possible
that what I find differs from what you might find; that’s why one
interpretation might be more to the liking of some listener and less to the
liking of others.
M&T: That’s what makes the whole thing interesting.
José Cura: Exactly. You surely don’t want to hear
the same thing over and over, every time you attend a concert or an opera. You
go to hear and experience the uniquely personal sides of an interpretation.
You don’t go to listen to a string of beautiful notes played in perfect
succession, something that can be pulled off easily with a little bit of
preparation. Rather, you want to be brought face to face with what’s behind it
all; really become engaged.
M&T: What is the absolutely requisite key to
communicating these insights, which you have worked out for yourself on an
intellectual and emotional level, to an orchestra of 100 musicians?
José Cura: That is probably the most difficult
aspect of the job of a conductor, as I see it. It’s also what makes it so
delicate and difficult to work together with an orchestra for only a short
period of time. The technical questions are taken care of in one rehearsal,
but if you do not yet know each other, then it’s almost always difficult at
the outset to find common ground. You often have to stand there almost like a
policeman and demand to get exactly what you’ve been asking for, so there is
no chance for misunderstandings to crop up. And it’s only in time that the
musicians are able to sense things, even before I spell them out. And
conversely, I can then depend on things coming out the way I want them to,
without having to repeat myself constantly.
M&T: What above all else does it take for that?
Competence? Authority? Charisma?
José Cura: It takes time. That’s why the most
difficult, problematic conducting work is that of the guest conductor. But on
the other hand, it is sometimes also really nice for both sides: Sort of like
a breeze of fresh air for a few days; like vacation time with new impressions.
And just as you look forward to your own home after a holiday, so it is here,
too. But you have had experiences in the meantime, perhaps even learned
something. That’s why there is always a degree of curiosity involved in doing
a stint as a guest conductor.
M&T: Curiosity on your part, minimalism on the part
of the orchestra’s musicians?
José Cura: No, no. With a good conductor,
minimalism will last exactly two minutes. Naturally, the first time I come to
work with an orchestra, the musicians perceive me to be a tenor with a baton
and not a conductor. And they’ll play accordingly--like they would for a tenor
with a baton. But only for two minutes.
M&T: And what do you do to change that at once, to
nip it in the bud?
José Cura: That’s quite easy: All those people
that sit in front of me are after all musicians and they naturally notice that
I am someone who has been conducting for many years, that I come thoroughly
equipped with the skills and the know how of a conductor. A professional
musician is able to discern that within a few minutes. If a conductor doesn’t
manage to establish authority at the first rehearsal, he’ll never do it.
M&T: What about this situation
in reverse, at the opera, when you sing and a new maestro is introduced?
José Cura: (It’s) exactly the
same: After two minutes I know whether I can depend on him; whether he
understands his job. If he doesn’t, then you begin to take matters into your
own hands; if he does, then you put yourself into his hands willingly. It is
sometimes really funny to sense that, to track that like a scanner. It’s
naturally something that’s reciprocal; each feels out the other, and as I
said, after a few minutes, the result is clear. You know how far you can go,
what you are able to demand, what you can expect.
M&T: Are you more critical as
far as conductors are concerned because you have a better understanding of
conducting than your fellow singers?
José Cura: Critical isn’t the
right word. On principle, I am very open, also to other opinions. There is
an advantage to this in that I sometimes see developing problems faster;
that I can detect and see through situations better because I know what I am
able to take into account.
M&T: On your tour through
Switzerland, you will conduct Dvorak’s 9thSymphony. Do you think
the Swiss will like your (reading of) Dvorak?
José Cura: We’ll see. This is
naturally not my own orchestra; I have not had a chance to get to know it.
But they are, from what I have heard and read, very good, very dedicated
young musicians, and I think we’ll be able to work well together. I suppose
that the last concerts are going to fulfill our expectations more than the
first ones because by then we will have been together for 15 days and will
have surely reached a high level of mutual understanding and insight. And
the Dvorak symphony is so magnificent that I am not worried. We didn’t want
to play a symphony that was too solemn and dramatic, because it is Christmas
time and people don’t want to hear anything that’s too heavy. No one wants
to be sad at that time of the year.
M&T: And in the first part,
talking about the arias by Verdi, Puccini and Meyerbeer, are you going to do
both, sing and conduct?
José Cura: No. There is another
conductor for that. In a concert setting, that kind of thing doesn’t work.
When I record, I am able to sing into the microphones and conduct
simultaneously because I have the orchestra in front of me; I’m facing the
musicians. With a good orchestra, you don’t have to mark too much as a rule.
But it’s not a workable (situation) in a concert where I must naturally sing
toward the audience. I have indeed done it before, as an encore for example,
but it is an awkward and delicate matter that needs several rehearsals for
everyone to be in complete accord, almost blindly so. And in one critical
review they wrote that I looked like a huge, clumsy bird. Facing the
audience with arms flapping is indeed a rather silly sight.
M&T: What were your
considerations in putting the aria part of your program together?
José Cura: I left that up to
the organizers. I made about twelve suggestions, and they selected from
among those. This is my first tour in Switzerland. Apart from my appearances
at the Zurich Opera House, one does not know me. But I believe the audience
is going to be nice, amiable, and warm-hearted and is coming to the concert
for pleasure and enjoyment. Naturally, there is this aspect of giving
commentaries and criticisms as always, but I should think that in the German
speaking countries, this is not the primary reason for coming-quite in
contrast to England and especially Italy.
M&T: And in Italy, how do you
handle it there?
José Cura: No one is absolute,
perfect; in this line of work, one has to live with a great variety of
opinions. And no matter where it is: after the first aria, I know how the
entire evening will go.
M&T: And a successful
appearance in the second part cannot change this first impression?
José Cura: Perhaps little by
little. But the first impression is dreadfully strong. When the members of
the audience take me into their hearts, embrace me right away, it becomes
quite easy for me to animate them, thrill them and transmit my feelings. If
not, it becomes very difficult. But I have rarely had that experience. This
can happen primarily when you sing unknown selections to which people cannot
relate so readily.
M&T: Here in Zurich you
have just sung (the part of) an unknown but fascinating Verdi character,
Stiffelio.
José Cura: He is indeed a very
different, unconventional figure not only in Verdi but the entire
repertoire. The other characters fit within the norms of Verdi baritones or
sopranos. Stiffelio by comparison is-as seen from my vantage point- a very
dubious, shady character, sort of a combination of Calvin and Rasputin.
(He’s) hostile to pleasure and very fanatical like Calvin but on the other
hand sexually driven like Rasputin. Gloomy and unbending, but underneath the
surface, passion is ablaze. He looks good, and he doesn’t have his hormones
under control. And the mixture makes this human being a walking bomb. This
is not about religion; his fanaticism provides him a means to block his
sensuality. In the end, he explodes. A grim, black and gloomy figure of
which there are only a few in (all of) opera. Because most find salvation or
forgiveness in the end. Stiffelio does not: He pretends to forgive, but he
doesn’t really. I love this figure.
M&T: Even though Verdi
has given him no aria (to sing)?
José Cura: Precisely for that
reason: Stiffelio has no music just for music’s sake. With the soprano and
the baritone, we have moments where the action stops and the music stands
alone-but not so with the tenor. Everything he sings has a dramatic reason.
For me that’s naturally wonderful because every time I take the stage, I
fight the cliché of the tenor who just stands there and shouts at the top of
his lungs. I hate that.
M&T: So do we.
José Cura: But not everyone
else by a long shot. Believe you me, there are many, many people who do not
want to see or hear anything else.
M&T: If you have such
strongly held ideas, such intense notions about a character, what does the
cooperation with a director look like? How is it affected?
José Cura: Cesare Lievi came
(to this) without preconceived notions; nothing was etched in stone. Many
details seen on stage were ideas of mine that took shape in the course of
rehearsals. And I’m really proud of that. I make suggestions during
rehearsals on how something might be depicted and performed. And Lievi took
those and developed them and brought them into accord with the other
figures. That’s the way all good directors work, including those that have
very definite ideas or want to provoke, something that I find totally ok:
they set the general direction, provide the big picture. But how the
characters act in detail, those finer points are worked out together with
the singers, and it is the task of the actor to develop that. Just like in
movies: The director says, this and this happened; now show me how your
character feels in this situation and how he reacts. In opera, there are
directors as it is who leave this task entirely in the hands of the singers
and work almost exclusively toward the big picture.
M&T: The staging of
‘Otello’ by Sven-Eric Bechtolf was quite controversial. How did you
experience it?
José Cura: I must say that we
discussed (things) a lot. With the result that I was pretty satisfied-as far
as the figures and their play/interaction is concerned- but generally, I did
not like the production. I found it contrived and sometimes a bit
ridiculous. In spite of that, I realized that this staging helped the
audience to focus above all on the singers, and that gave us considerable
possibilities. When you have this kind of a production and bad actors on top
of that, then things go awry. But I think Bechtolf was able to take
liberties with this venture because he had singers in Raimondi, Dessí and
me, in whom he sensed the charisma of stage personalities.
Reinmar Wagner/ translation by Monica
B.
